More thoughts on the Lost finale...
May. 21st, 2009 03:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mfirefly10This is not a review of the finale. It is a response to many of the theories/criticisms that fandom has been buzzing about since.
*Not!Locke/Jacob: Anyone else think that neither one of these dudes is all that ‘good’? From what we’ve seen, both are of capable of doing terrible things in order to get what they want. Perhaps their balance of black versus white doesn’t mean that one stands for ‘good’ while the other represents ‘evil’. ‘Good’ and ‘evil’ could simply be the terms we created for forces we don’t understand.
*In response to the idea that Jacob somehow keeps the 815-ers alive/safe: I don't think his appearance in their lives meant anything other than what it seemed to be. Jacob used his 'influence' to get these specific people to the island when he needed them. I think that's why he visited them at different points in their lives. For example:
He visited Sun, Jin, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer BEFORE the original 815 crash. Sawyer and Jin never left the island so that took care of them. Sun returned to the island to look for Jin because, as Jacob said, their love is special. Jack and Kate chose to return to the island, on their own, because of their connections to Claire and each other.
As far as we know, Jacob didn't visit Hurley or Sayid until after the original crash. Sayid was on 815 because of his search for Nadia. Once they returned to the real world and he was reunited with Nadia, he had no reason to return to the island. That is, until Jacob stepped in, got Nadia killed, and set Sayid down the path that led him back to the island. Hurley came to the island because of his obsession with the numbers. Once he got over that obsession, he had no desire to return to the island. Until Jacob showed up and told Hurley how his 'special' abilities would be appreciated on the island.
Now, why didn't he visit Miles or Juliet? Well, Miles was born on the island and that seemed to be enough of an influence, on its own, to get him to return. And Juliet...as we all remember, was brought to the island by Ben, who spent years taking his orders from...Jacob! So, essentially, Jacob did bring Juliet to the island. I think this is all-but-proven by Jacob’s visit to Iliana, whom he seeks out for help and who comes to the island to prove that Locke isn’t really Locke.
*Juliet: I’ve seen a lot of criticism directed at Juliet based on her actions in the finale. A lot of people think her reaction to ‘the look’ was overly dramatic. And it was…But…I believe that was merely the excuse she gave as to why she ‘changed her mind’. In my opinion, she NEVER changed her mind. I think Juliet decided to help Jack the moment she heard about his plan. At that point, she’d been on the island for 6 years and in spite of dozens of attempts, never managed to leave it. She probably assumed that she never would. And for her to stay on the island, post-incident, would be a very bad thing. Why? Because Juliet was clearly pregnant.
Her pregnancy had been foreshadowed since La Fleur^ and was a pretty understandable reason why she’d want to change things. Juliet assumed that ‘the incident’ made it impossible for women to give birth on the island. So whether they stayed in the 70s or went back to their own time, the probability of Juliet delivering a healthy baby on that island was very slim.
Now, I think Juliet could’ve survived losing James. She would’ve been heart-broken, but she would’ve survived. But losing a child? There’s no way Juliet could’ve gotten past that. So she decided that if Faraday’s plan worked, she would never meet James and never have to face the possibility of losing her child. She gave James the Kate excuse because she didn’t want to have to tell him about a child they would probably lose.
^ (Juliet’s pregnancy was foreshadowed by her delight over delivering a healthy child and her reaction to the same child in a later episode, where she’s asked when she and James will start having babies. It’s also foreshadowed heavily in the finale, where attention is constantly drawn to her stomach and by Bernard’s final words to her. Clearly, he recognized the signs of her pregnancy and wanted to keep her from rushing off into a dangerous situation.)
*What happened at the end: I believe that what we saw happen to Des, Locke, and co. in season 2 is the same thing that happened in ‘the incident’. The detonation managed to destroy the electromagnetism that built up during the experiment. I think Miles’ father realized what happened and built the fail-safe, which Des then used in season 2. SO…what does that mean for the folks who actually experienced ‘the incident’? Well, the entire hatch imploded on Locke and Des and they both lived. Des acquired an interesting new skill but he survived. I believe the same thing happened to our people, only instead of experiencing what Des did, they were all sent back to their own time. One question that remains is what state they were in when they were sent back. Because Juliet wasn’t the only one with fatal wounds. Sayid wasn’t looking too good either, so my guess is that Jacob (or Not!Locke) heals them. We know that little Ben was healed but that the process changed him. Will it do the same to Juliet and Sayid? Is that what happened to Claire?
*I think the 70s travelers will be separated upon their arrival in their own time. I think it will be assumed that Juliet was killed in the incident and that belief will stick until she shows up, alive and well, many episodes later. I believe the writers are gearing up to 2 EPIC reunions: The first, which I’m hoping will happen in an early episode, will be Sun and Jin. The second, which I’m guessing won’t happen until almost the final episode, will be James, Juliet, and their unborn child. I also think it’s possible that Juliet’s child somehow keeps her from being changed the way Ben was.
OR…I’m absolutely full of sh!t and the writers will take the story in a completely different direction! (Also: My thoughts on Juliet are based on my need to believe that she's still alive. Cause if she's not, Lost has succeeded in killing off ALL of my favorite female characters...and THAT...I refuse to believe!)
Little comments: Loved the Charlie reference. Loved the Sun/Jin wedding flashback. Loved the reactions of everyone when Miles pointed out that they were probably going to cause the very thing they were trying to prevent. Loved the idea that Rose and Bernard just said, ‘to heck with everything’, and lived out their lives in peace. And their reaction to seeing Sawyer and co. on the beach was hysterical! ‘Son of a bitch, they found us!’
Also: Couldn’t the writers have come up with something better as Jack’s ‘reason’? When he first started talking about how he ‘lost her’, I was sure he was talking about Claire. Because he actually DID lose her…unlike Kate, who was still alive and well and standing FIVE FEET away from him! Gods, even the die-hard Jack fans must admit that was pretty pathetic.
*Not!Locke/Jacob: Anyone else think that neither one of these dudes is all that ‘good’? From what we’ve seen, both are of capable of doing terrible things in order to get what they want. Perhaps their balance of black versus white doesn’t mean that one stands for ‘good’ while the other represents ‘evil’. ‘Good’ and ‘evil’ could simply be the terms we created for forces we don’t understand.
*In response to the idea that Jacob somehow keeps the 815-ers alive/safe: I don't think his appearance in their lives meant anything other than what it seemed to be. Jacob used his 'influence' to get these specific people to the island when he needed them. I think that's why he visited them at different points in their lives. For example:
He visited Sun, Jin, Jack, Kate, and Sawyer BEFORE the original 815 crash. Sawyer and Jin never left the island so that took care of them. Sun returned to the island to look for Jin because, as Jacob said, their love is special. Jack and Kate chose to return to the island, on their own, because of their connections to Claire and each other.
As far as we know, Jacob didn't visit Hurley or Sayid until after the original crash. Sayid was on 815 because of his search for Nadia. Once they returned to the real world and he was reunited with Nadia, he had no reason to return to the island. That is, until Jacob stepped in, got Nadia killed, and set Sayid down the path that led him back to the island. Hurley came to the island because of his obsession with the numbers. Once he got over that obsession, he had no desire to return to the island. Until Jacob showed up and told Hurley how his 'special' abilities would be appreciated on the island.
Now, why didn't he visit Miles or Juliet? Well, Miles was born on the island and that seemed to be enough of an influence, on its own, to get him to return. And Juliet...as we all remember, was brought to the island by Ben, who spent years taking his orders from...Jacob! So, essentially, Jacob did bring Juliet to the island. I think this is all-but-proven by Jacob’s visit to Iliana, whom he seeks out for help and who comes to the island to prove that Locke isn’t really Locke.
*Juliet: I’ve seen a lot of criticism directed at Juliet based on her actions in the finale. A lot of people think her reaction to ‘the look’ was overly dramatic. And it was…But…I believe that was merely the excuse she gave as to why she ‘changed her mind’. In my opinion, she NEVER changed her mind. I think Juliet decided to help Jack the moment she heard about his plan. At that point, she’d been on the island for 6 years and in spite of dozens of attempts, never managed to leave it. She probably assumed that she never would. And for her to stay on the island, post-incident, would be a very bad thing. Why? Because Juliet was clearly pregnant.
Her pregnancy had been foreshadowed since La Fleur^ and was a pretty understandable reason why she’d want to change things. Juliet assumed that ‘the incident’ made it impossible for women to give birth on the island. So whether they stayed in the 70s or went back to their own time, the probability of Juliet delivering a healthy baby on that island was very slim.
Now, I think Juliet could’ve survived losing James. She would’ve been heart-broken, but she would’ve survived. But losing a child? There’s no way Juliet could’ve gotten past that. So she decided that if Faraday’s plan worked, she would never meet James and never have to face the possibility of losing her child. She gave James the Kate excuse because she didn’t want to have to tell him about a child they would probably lose.
^ (Juliet’s pregnancy was foreshadowed by her delight over delivering a healthy child and her reaction to the same child in a later episode, where she’s asked when she and James will start having babies. It’s also foreshadowed heavily in the finale, where attention is constantly drawn to her stomach and by Bernard’s final words to her. Clearly, he recognized the signs of her pregnancy and wanted to keep her from rushing off into a dangerous situation.)
*What happened at the end: I believe that what we saw happen to Des, Locke, and co. in season 2 is the same thing that happened in ‘the incident’. The detonation managed to destroy the electromagnetism that built up during the experiment. I think Miles’ father realized what happened and built the fail-safe, which Des then used in season 2. SO…what does that mean for the folks who actually experienced ‘the incident’? Well, the entire hatch imploded on Locke and Des and they both lived. Des acquired an interesting new skill but he survived. I believe the same thing happened to our people, only instead of experiencing what Des did, they were all sent back to their own time. One question that remains is what state they were in when they were sent back. Because Juliet wasn’t the only one with fatal wounds. Sayid wasn’t looking too good either, so my guess is that Jacob (or Not!Locke) heals them. We know that little Ben was healed but that the process changed him. Will it do the same to Juliet and Sayid? Is that what happened to Claire?
*I think the 70s travelers will be separated upon their arrival in their own time. I think it will be assumed that Juliet was killed in the incident and that belief will stick until she shows up, alive and well, many episodes later. I believe the writers are gearing up to 2 EPIC reunions: The first, which I’m hoping will happen in an early episode, will be Sun and Jin. The second, which I’m guessing won’t happen until almost the final episode, will be James, Juliet, and their unborn child. I also think it’s possible that Juliet’s child somehow keeps her from being changed the way Ben was.
OR…I’m absolutely full of sh!t and the writers will take the story in a completely different direction! (Also: My thoughts on Juliet are based on my need to believe that she's still alive. Cause if she's not, Lost has succeeded in killing off ALL of my favorite female characters...and THAT...I refuse to believe!)
Little comments: Loved the Charlie reference. Loved the Sun/Jin wedding flashback. Loved the reactions of everyone when Miles pointed out that they were probably going to cause the very thing they were trying to prevent. Loved the idea that Rose and Bernard just said, ‘to heck with everything’, and lived out their lives in peace. And their reaction to seeing Sawyer and co. on the beach was hysterical! ‘Son of a bitch, they found us!’
Also: Couldn’t the writers have come up with something better as Jack’s ‘reason’? When he first started talking about how he ‘lost her’, I was sure he was talking about Claire. Because he actually DID lose her…unlike Kate, who was still alive and well and standing FIVE FEET away from him! Gods, even the die-hard Jack fans must admit that was pretty pathetic.
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no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 08:18 pm (UTC)I am in total agreement about Jacob's touching the 815'ers. I think he was marking their destinies in some way, but I definitely don't think it's as black and white as "to save the 815'ers from Jughead". There's a clear and cut link between the bomb detonation, and the failsafe at the Hatch. That flash at the end was 1) far too much like the flashes indicating time jumps and 2) a whole lot like what happened when the Hatch exploded. And it's in the same damn place.
Sayid: Jacob's presence at Nadia's hit and run leads me to believe that good and evil is a relative term. And IIRC it was Widmore who arranged it, and it was also Widmore who told Locke that there was a war coming. So there's a possible Jacob/Widmore connection. Widmore also recruited Miles, allowing the latter to finally return to his place of birth. So yes, a hand in destiny there.
Juliet: It's so much more than just about Kate. It's her entire life of being beaten down and ignored. Everytime she's put her heart out there, it's been cut to bits. And I think she got incredibly scared. And I also think there were far more layers to Juliet's emotions and about 90% of them were dwelling in subtext. I cannot tell you how many people asked the question "was Juliet pregnant?". I really need to go back and watch the episode again, but there have been so many moments from La Fleur onwards that have gotten me thinking "I wonder...". I've read various episode reviews (on websites rather than blogs) that have asked that question as well. Juliet seemed unusally sad and emotional these last few episodes, and surely it has to go much deeper than the presence of Kate?
Personally I'm on board with a little blonde baby I tell ya, but that is so the shipper in me lol.
On what's to come: I do think there'll be a definite split. Juliet will be presumed dead. And I'd really like to see Sawyer grieve her. I think our epic reunion will take a fair amount of time, after all they kept Sun and Jin apart for an entire season! So I'm sure they'll be the first to get their due.
On the quadrangle: I said it before - ok it was like yesterday - and I'll say it again. In their final moments, when there was nothing left, and death was staring them in the face, Sawyer chose Juliet, and Kate chose Jack. And I think romantically, that's where their destinies lie.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 03:55 am (UTC)*giggles*
Our ship is SO badass!
BTW: Thanks SO much for the AWESOME J&J icon!!! *points up* As you can see, I get a LOT of use out of it:).
ITA about the connection between Widmore and Jacob. I'm thinking it played a big factor in why Widmore (and Ellie) were willing to send Daniel to his death. (Perhaps they knew it was the only way to 'save' Jacob.)
One of the reasons I support the pregnancy angle is because I think it explains Juliet's over-reaction to Kate. I mean, I can understand why, given her previous history, Juliet would feel threatened by Kate but I don't think it would be to such an extent without some other contributing factor. What really convinced me was Bernard's behavior. Juliet was the only one he singled out to ask about the tea and the shot cut immediately to Juliet's hand over her stomach so...I'm thinking that was a pretty big hint!
As far as the quadrangle goes: The fact is...Sawyer and Kate brought out the worst in each other, whereas James/Juliet and Jack/Kate tend to bring out the best. And it's absolutely clear that James chose Juliet...even BEFORE her 'death'. He chose to leave the island with Juliet when he easily could've made a deal to get her off the island but stayed behind on his own to find Kate. It was more important to him that he and Juliet stay together than it was to save the rest of their people. And that might be a little selfish but I think it shows that James really does put her first. (And I used the present tense there because Juliet WILL be reunited with her James!)
no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 04:57 pm (UTC)Oh you're more than welcome! I get so happy when folks actually like and want to use :-)
no subject
Date: 2009-05-23 06:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-23 10:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 08:53 pm (UTC)Although in Jacob's defense it occurs to me that Jacob might have marked them purposefully not just to make them come back to the island, but to make sure the timeflashes would take them to the right when/where. Hopefully that means Sun is going to be the anchor for them all to come forward to the present. Or maybe she has some badassery to come on the beach, when she, Ilana and Richard go try to take down FauxLocke... Dunno, but I think Jacob's been planning this for a long time.
But poor Juliet flashing-forward and then stuck at the bottom of the Swan. I think there's concrete there, too, IIRC - so she's gonna need some serious supernatural assistance to get out of there. Or Desmond was "thrown" wans't he, when he turned the failsafe key? So maybe she was too, and they'll find her magically healed wandering the jungle! As long as she comes back (as more than Smokey!Juliet, because that would just break my heart).
no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 04:00 am (UTC)And I loved your chess analogy. It really does seem like Jacob and Esau have been playing some strategic game all along.
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Date: 2009-05-21 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 04:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 04:54 pm (UTC)And on Jack: I remember reading spoilers during S5 that even though Jack "seems" to be acting like a jerk this season we'll all change our tune about him during the finale... um... where was this epic tune changing device located?
no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 09:10 pm (UTC)Well, perhaps they were talking about the series finale? Cause...yeah...the season 5 finale made me think even less of Jack than I already did and THAT'S saying something!
no subject
Date: 2009-05-21 10:08 pm (UTC)Gonna reserve my thoughts about the whole Jacob/Not!Locke thing. It's too new of a revelation for me to speculate upon at this point. I always wondered what Widmore was talking about when he mentioned "sides" in a war that was coming. It would seem that said conflict has something to do with these two entities and their struggle for dominance. Truth be told, though, I just really want to know more about the Statue--oh, and what Richard said in response to Illana's "password" (What lies in the shadow of the Statue?)
Did anyone else get a sorta sinister vibe when Penny left Charlie behind to go in and talk to Desmond when he woke up? I just had this overwhelming feeling of dread that when she goes back to the waiting room, her son will be gone. :(
And please, for the love of all that's holy, let Jin and Sun get back together next season! Jin has grown so much from the person he was in the first and second seasons.
no subject
Date: 2009-05-22 04:10 am (UTC)I was SHOCKED when this didn't happen...not that it still couldn't because we've got another whole season to go...But yeah, I kinda wanted to hit Penny in that moment. Even without creepy!Ellie, it's not cool a leave your kid alone like that. Take him with you! (Then again, this show has me prepared for kidnapping so I could be reading too much into it)
Kate...I actually liked Kate for the first...2 1/2 seasons. Somewhere in the middle of season 3, she started to get on my nerves. Now I've gotten to a point where I could care less about her. (I LOVE that you'd be happy without Jack...'cause he really is a terrible character!)
I'd love to see Sun play a bigger role next season. It was such a waste to have her character with Not!Locke and Ben this season, just so Darlton could drag out the Jin/Sun reunion for as long as possible.
*fingers crossed* for the Sun/Jin & James/Juliet EPIC reunions of EPICNESS.